Where are you from?

We are both from The Netherlands. Tobias comes from the region of Eindhoven and Manon lived about an hour east of him, near the border with Germany. Lived, because we literally left everything behind (or nothing, actually) and our Defender 110 is all we currently have.

When did you start your interest in exploration?

Manon: I remember going to Canada with my parents when I was 7 years old, and I couldn’t wait to move there. Unfortunately, we never did, but I do think part of my travel mindset comes from that trip. The most prominent time in my life when I started longing for adventure/travel was when I was around 15-16 years old. I remember sitting in class just dreaming about countries like Australia and New Zealand. Although those countries are still on my to-visit list, those dreams are the start of the adventure. 

Tobias: For me, it started at the age of 16, or maybe earlier. Ever since I was little my parents took me, and later my younger brother, camping at every chance we got. We would set off on countless trips during the year, constantly exploring new regions around Europe. At the age of 16, I got the chance to buy my first ‘vehicle’,  a Piaggio Ape 50. An originally Italian three-wheeled scooter with a cabin. It was the perfect thing to take to school, but also to take out on smaller trips. Me and my friends used to throw a bunch of camping stuff in the back and just hit the road. A few years later I switched to my first vehicle, a Land Rover Series 3 109 Ambulance, before moving on to our current Defender 110. It’s the latter that set off a chain reaction that has led us to where we are now, full-time exploring the world using the vehicle as our base camp.

What is a brief understanding of your background story up until you started seeking adventure?

Manon: My background before setting off to Africa (which to me is the ‘official’ beginning of my adventure lifestyle), is having an Applied Biology degree and eventually setting up my own business. Ubuntu Magazine, my latest business, is still going strong now and we actually combine our adventures with finding nature conservation organizations that we can feature. 

Tobias: I guess I covered it already for a bit in the previous answer. But just like Manon I studied Applied Biology, broadening my respect and interest in nature, and the exploration of it. During my studies and the years thereafter, I got the chance to go on many smaller trips, and two big Europe expeditions, before setting off to Africa together with Manon. Overall it’s been a gradual process of continuously seeking more, looking for places further off-the-beaten-track, and pushing for longer periods in the wild. It wasn’t until I met Manon a few years ago (just before we left) that everything came together and we got to embrace this lifestyle to the fullest.

What special skills do you have to help with your explorations?

Manon: I honestly wouldn’t know… I love cooking and baking haha, which has helped us out deep in the desert and riverbeds of Namibia for example—and it has helped keep the morale high during challenging situations and days. 

Tobias: Manon is being way too modest here! She’s great at gathering inspiration for where to go! And if we go there and we break down, she’s incredibly good at thinking outside of the box. She’s come up with so many good solutions to keep us going, from simply reminding me about the simple fixes that I overlooked, to solving problems by using items differently than their original intent.

I'm not sure what my special skills are. I love mechanics, or actually, I’ve made myself familiar with it. It’s a skill that has helped us a lot over the past years, as it enables us to go further from civilization in confidence, and saves us money and hassle while on the road. 

Overall I think overlanding successfully comes down to following your intuition (you’ll feel when it’s right, or when something is off) and taking on the right adventure mindset. Be extremely flexible, be eager to learn, don’t set too many expectations, and go with the flow.

Manon: And not to forget that Tobias is the planning and navigation wizard in our team. I am more of a dreamer, so I do love to look up exciting tracks and places to visit, but Tobias can spend hours with his nose in maps trying to find out the best way to tackle the next leg of the journey. 

Where have you explored so far?

Manon: I was able to explore a little bit of Europe and Canada, and I was able to live in Curacao and Iceland before we set off for our Africa trip. 

Tobias: During my childhood, I got to visit most countries in Western Europe, and a few countries in Asia, with my parents and brother. Later on during university, I got to study and work in Costa Rica, which was completely new to me. It was when I got the Defender in 2015 that the ball really started rolling, as a friend and I set off to explore most of Europe, covering a few dozen countries in 2017 and 2020/2021.

In Africa, we have been able to see almost every country on the coast from Morocco to Kenya—excluding Sierra Leone and Liberia. So we’re missing some central countries and the most northern countries, which we’d love to go to in the future! 

Rafiki, our Defender, has been in 61 countries now (excluding a little transit through Russia in 2017). Now it’s time to explore new regions and revisit some of our favorites, and we would love to show each other the countries of our past—such as Costa Rica and Iceland.

What is a brief understanding of your adventures so far?

Nearly 3 years ago we left the Netherlands with the thought of circumnavigating Africa in about a year's time. We soon found out that a year was way too short, and as we got together as a couple during our trip we decided to make it an open-ended trip. We have discovered nearly every country from Morocco to South Africa, Central Africa up to Zambia and East Africa. 

What are the top three destinations you hope to explore next, and why?

Manon: Oh, what a good question. My top 3 ‘to visit’ changes basically every week, depending on who we talk to, to which podcasts we listen to, and what Instagram shows us. Right now, I’m super interested in New Zealand, Kyrgyzstan and Canada, but in all honesty, there are far more than 3 countries I’d visit instantly if I had the chance. 

Tobias: Tricky one! It’s hard to pick countries, but as a first I can tell you that I’m looking forward to the mountains of Europe to finally get active in the outdoors again. Secondly, I would love to immerse myself/ourselves in the dark green forests of Scandinavia for some time alone with the three of us (me, Manon and Nimba our dog), and I’m very much looking forward to remote exploration in the Middle East and Central Asia!

Where would you recommend others visit?

Manon: Although we haven’t been overlanding there, I highly recommend Canada as it is just one of my favorite countries in the world. I can’t wait to explore more of the country myself. 

Tobias: It all depends on what you seek. If you are looking for unique and rough experiences, West Africa is the place. If you want to see wildlife in a relaxed manner, go to Southern Africa. Visit East Africa if you want to see wildlife, have a huge diversity of landscapes, and want to immerse yourself in the rougher way of life on the African continent (the slightly easier version of West Africa).

But I love Europe too! For overlanding it’s such a great continent, as it’s diverse, easy to travel through, and it offers so many opportunities for everyone. You can pick your adventures and see what you like, and that’s extremely valuable. 

How do you primarily travel on your adventures today?

We travel with our Land Rover Defender 110 from the year 2000 (300tdi from factory, ROW spec). Our top three modifications are currently the rooftop tent, slide-out kitchen, and custom suspension. But, we are going to do a complete overhaul in South Africa in just a couple of months from now, and that will include installing a pop-top and custom interior that provides us with an indoor living and office space. Although the car has really done a brilliant job in the past years, we can’t wait for this upgrade to be done. 

What are five pieces of equipment that you always travel with?

1. LifeSaver, our water purification jerrycan. It’s simply one of the things we can’t travel without and it has saved us from bad water sources many times already
2. Our Silky Bigboy Pro 2000 saw. We used to have a smaller saw, but we are very grateful to travel with this powerhouse! It has saved many days during which we basically got to the end of the track due to overgrowth. Thanks to our saw we were able to continue and explore even more. 
3. Our cameras and drone. Although we carry a variety of lenses, we love our Nikon D500 with 50mm lens, Sony Alpha 6300 with 16mm lens, and our DJI Mini 4 Pro.
4. Leatherman Wave+ Multitool. Back home we thought this was quite an expensive and useless tool, as we rarely used it. On the road, we completely switched our perspective and we LOVE it. We use it throughout the day; from fixing things to cutting apples. Having a little tool at hand to tackle the small problems that come our way is super efficient!
5. The toolbox, as we love to maintain and improve our vehicle ourselves, we can’t do without it.

What inspires you to explore more?

Manon: What I love about exploration is how it challenges my beliefs daily. Whatever we are taught when we are young is only one truth, and there are so many beliefs and truths out there. I find it incredibly interesting to learn about that. And I can’t leave out the natural aspect either. Being able to discover natural gems, and to learn more about nature conservation initiatives I hadn’t heard about before is a true privilege. 

Tobias: For me adventure and exploration revolve around seeking contrasts, challenging myself/ourselves to venture out further and more remote, and gaining different perspectives on the world. It’s all about growth and a better understanding of the world, and disconnecting from the relatively monotonous lifestyle back home.

How do you engage with others?

We always enter any situation with an open mind and a smile. I think by just being open to whatever or whoever comes your way, you are most likely to enjoy it. Even if we’re talking about corruption, you can often strike up very nice conversations with officers once they see that you are there, patiently waiting with a smile. And it’s also great in cultures you are not familiar with. Just being open-minded and friendly is the way to go for us. One pro tip we have for overlanders is to always drive with the windows down. That way, you remove a barrier, and people will start to respect you more once you stop and engage in conversations. Although in Europe this wasn’t as obvious, in Africa it definitely makes a big impact on the way people treat you.

Why is it important to embrace global cultures?

In the Western world nowadays, cultures are everywhere: on the streets, in the supermarket (it has never been easier to find foods from all over the world), and of course online. The thing is, however, that neither of those representations is a full representation of that specific culture. Take the Netherlands for example. If we meet people on the road—even in countries as far as Mozambique—people think that our culture revolves around milk, tulips and windmills. Yes, you can find all of those things in our country, but it’s not something we would say defines our entire culture. So the only way to really get to know other cultures is by traveling and by going there to learn more about them. 

And to come back to their importance, one of the main things we find important is that there are so many worldviews, and we can learn so incredibly much from each other. So if we just look and listen, we can learn something new wherever we go. 

What are your goals when you explore?

To enjoy the outdoor lifestyle, experience a country's diversity, and learn more about the country and its people. Although we are not very interested in history (generically speaking), we’ve found it quite interesting to learn more about a country's history as well—but we like to learn about it on the go, not from literature. 

We also love to push our limits—seeing how far remote we can go while still enjoying it. It tests our resilience.

What are some challenges you have experienced?

There are definitely practical challenges, like car trouble once in a while, searching for water sources, and dealing with extreme heat, depending on the country where we are/go. 

And although it sounds very unrealistic, we have come across racism directed at us. That was something I definitely hadn’t expected before setting off. I’ve also been very surprised by the ‘begging culture’ in many of the countries that we passed through, and it’s true that some people really struggle, but in general, it’s become customary to ask tourists for money or snacks, just because they can ask. Although people in general are really friendly and welcoming, being always ‘in’ Africa (not behind a fence on a campsite) we find it very challenging to find peace and calmness on a continuous basis.

What has been your most meaningful moment so far?

One very special moment was when we were having a quick break next to the road in Morocco and two boys, aged about 16, asked us to follow them. We weren’t sure what we were getting ourselves into, but one of the boys brought us to his house where we were welcomed with open arms. The mom didn’t know we were coming, yet made plates full of food right on the spot. We communicated with our very limited array of French words and some Google Translate, but mostly we smiled and laughed. It’s an experience we will never forget.

How has exploration changed you?

Manon: I think the past three years of exploration have really had an impact on my understanding of the world. With that, I’ve become a more humble version of myself. I used to dive into ideas head first (before our expedition), yet now I find myself thinking about things much better before attempting something. I guess my spontaneity and naivety had both a positive and negative side, so I’m curious to discover how this will unfold once we get back to Europe. 

Tobias: It has impacted me positively in so many ways. By constantly stepping out of my comfort zone, I’ve gained so much experience and confidence in life. Knowing what I want, believing in who I am (and what I can offer), but at the same time becoming more humble. Exploration has taught me to be adaptive, think outside the box, and always keep challenging yourself. And just as with Manon, it’s given me a much better understanding of the world and its huge diversity and perspectives.

What is the number one lesson that you have learnt through your exploration?

Manon: We are all just human. I ‘knew’ that before I set off on this journey, but being in touch with so many people from such a variety of backgrounds it comes back time and time again. We all want the same things in life: happiness, health, etc. 

Tobias: For me, it’s that the world that we think we know, in reality, is often so much different. When we hear about Africa back in Europe, we only hear about war, famine, and safety risks, or on the other hand the beautiful safari experiences and the amount of wildlife. It’s only when we ventured here that we learned that these stories are true, but only tell about 5% of the entire story of the continent. You can only know a country when you’ve been there yourself and explored it well.

How do you explore locally?

We are naturally very active people, and we’ve noticed that going on long hikes is more difficult in large parts of Africa—as a result of high temperatures, the ability to take our dog, Nimba, into National Parks, etc. We hope to do longer distance hikes (multiple-day) hikes in our home area once we get back. 

Manon: And I’d love to go supping more as well, as I’ve missed being in and around bodies of water (without crocodiles). 

Tobias: I bought two sets for via ferrata a couple of years ago, and I’d love to take Manon to show/teach her the sports when we are back in Europe.

What does the explmore mantra mean to you?

The explmore mantra is a friendly nudge to anyone who travels to not only go to a place to enjoy the beach and sunset but to truly submerge yourself in other countries and cultures. The world is beautiful, but to really enjoy it we should look beyond the surface. 

Additionally, it’s about connecting to local people daily, from the woman at the vegetable stall next to the road to someone with car trouble. We always want to make a positive impact wherever we go. 

What advice would you give to others who are seeking life changing adventure?

Manon: What really helps me to make adventure life-changing, is to not rush it. Take the time, even during your trip, to assess and reflect on things that happened. You can do that through writing (my favorite way), but talking about it without someone else is of course also possible. 

Tobias: Don’t overthink it. Start dreaming about what you want to do, take the first steps and just go. You can better start now, and be underprepared, then keep dreaming and preparing for something that you never set out to do. You can start small, and venture out further from there.